Response to Sam Shamoun on the topic " Does being called "Kyrios" really imply Deity?

 

By Ahmed Eldin

 

 

 

 

You can find his article here:

 

 http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_kurios.htm (read his article first and then mine).

 

 

To begin with, we must realize that the word "Kyrios" also has other meanings in the Greek language.

 

kurioV
kurios
koo'-ree-os

from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):-- God, Lord, master, Sir.

 

Source : http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

 

Also visit: http://www.whoisjesus.com/yhwh-LORD.html

 

 

Jesus is called "Lord" because it is a respectful title for him. He is called "Lord" in the same way as Prophet Abraham was called.

 

"Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord (Abraham) being old also?" Genesis 18:12

Also, like Esau:

 

"And he commanded them, saying, Thus shall ye speak unto my lord Esau; Thy servant Jacob saith thus, I have sojourned with Laban, and stayed there until now:" Genesis 32:4

Like Joseph:

"And we said unto my lord, We have a father, an old man, and a child of his old age, a little one; and his brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother, and his father loveth him." Genesis 44:20

Like David: "And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, [upon] me [let this] iniquity [be]: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid." 1 Samuel 25:24

 

Let us analyze the strategy that Shamoun used in his article. Below you will understand that Shamoun hardly quoted from the words of Jesus and he mainly quoted from the doctrine of Paul who corrupted the true religion that Jesus brought to humanity by the will of God.

 

For more information's about Paul and Christianity visit: 

 

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only

 

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf (a must read)

 

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_

Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

 

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

 

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity

 

Paul's words are irrelevant; the only thing that matters is the words of Jesus and especially what he said about himself not what others believed about him.

 

He wrote:

For instance, the Hebrew Scriptures teach that salvation comes from calling on the name of Yahweh:

"And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls." Joel 2:32

Yet according to the NT, believers are to call on the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation:

"Then he said: ?The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'" Acts 22:14-16

"That if you confess with your mouth, ?Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, ?Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.' For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile?the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, ?Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'" Romans 10:9-13

 

My response:

 

Shamoun quoted the words of Paul NOT the words of Jesus, but even in that way, Shamoun fails to realize that Lord also means Master or Sir in the Greek language. In addition, other individuals in the Old Testament are called Lord. So both quotations that Shamoun presented as evidence is not by Jesus but from others. At least if Shamoun wants to be honest, he must quote the words of Jesus and what he says concerning the meaning of the word "Lord" not by others.

 

He wrote:

NT Christians even prayed to Jesus the same way OT believers prayed to Yahweh:

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God." Genesis 21:33 - 12:8

"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth." Psalm 31:5

"Moses and Aaron were among his priests, Samuel was among those who called on his name; they called on the LORD and he answered them." Psalm 99:6

"While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, ?Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he fell on his knees and cried out, ?Lord, do not hold this sin against them.' When he had said this, he fell asleep." Acts 7:59-60

"To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ?their Lord and ours:" 1 Corinthians 1:2

 

My Response:

 

It seems that Shamoun didn't read the following passages from the Bible:

 

"Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)" 

 

he fell with his face to the ground and prayed....(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:39)"

 

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.  (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)"

 

One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

 

This is what I mean when I say the words of Jesus  really maters for an evaluation and not the false words of Paul and others. Clearly as you see above Jesus taught to pray and call on the Father not to pray to Jesus. So to whom you will call or pray? To Jesus as Paul said or to the Father the true God as Jesus said. Jesus prayed to God simply because he recognized him as the true God.

 

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

He wrote:

Moreover, these believers invoked Jesus for favors and healing in the same manner that the saints of the OT beseeched Yahweh:

"Save, O LORD, for the godly one is gone; for the faithful have vanished from among the children of man." Psalm 12:1

"But you, O LORD, have mercy on me; raise me up, that I may repay them." Psalm 41:10

"Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I call to you all day long." Psalm 86:3, cf. 123:3

"O LORD, save us; O LORD, grant us success." Psalm 118:25

"And when he got into the boat, his disciples followed him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being swamped by the waves; but he was asleep. And they went and woke him, saying, 'Save us, Lord; we are perishing.'" Matthew 8:23-25

"And Peter answered him, 'Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.' He said, 'Come.' So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, 'Lord, save me.' Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, 'O you of little faith, why did you doubt?'" Matthew 14:28-31

"And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, 'Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.'" Matthew 15:22

"And behold, there were two blind men sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was passing by, they cried out, 'Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!' The crowd rebuked them, telling them to be silent, but they cried out all the more, 'Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!'" Matthew 20:30-31

 

My response:

 

Sam Shamoun compares Gods power with the God-given powers that Jesus had. Shamoun probably never read the following passages of the NT:

 

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

 

Also:

 

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 

The quotations that Shamoun gives illustrate the help that people wanted was the miracles of Jesus, which God did by him. Therefore God was the source not Jesus.

 

 

 

He wrote:

The NT further says that every knee will bend to Jesus as Lord just as they do to Yahweh:

"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." Isaiah 45:22-23

"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:9-11

 

My response:

 

Did Jesus say these words? Of course not. Again Shamoun quotes from the doctrine of Paul not from the words of Jesus. Jesus said: 

 

 John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

 

Note: The words "worshippers" and "worship" is wrongly translated. The Greek word is " " proskinite" and " proskinisousin" which the true meaning in English is " those who prostrate" ( proskinite) and " to prostrate" (proskinisousin). 

 

Therefore, Jesus said to prostrate to the Father not to him. Jesus never said "I am your God" and never said "worship me".

 

He wrote:

There are other factors which further substantiate that the NT writers were identifying Jesus as Yahweh when they called him Kurios or Lord.

For example, like Yahweh Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings:

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes." Deuteronomy 10:17

"Give thanks to the Lord of lords: His love endures forever." Psalm 136:3

"and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood," Revelation 1:5

"They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings?and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14

"On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16

 

My response:

 

Where does it say that Jesus is God of Gods as the O.T God describes himself? He can be lord of the lords, which can be also translated as the most respectful personality but not God. Anyway again Shamoun fails to quote Jesus. Does Jesus say

 

"I am the Lord of the Lords"? OR, the King of the Kings? Moreover, if there is such a quotation it does not mean that he is God.

 

 

He wrote:

Like Yahweh, Jesus has prophets who prophesy in his name:

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, ?How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:19-22

"Not everyone who says to me, ?Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ?Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, ?I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Matthew 7:21-23

 

My response:

 

Amazingly the quotation that Shamoun posted is against all of the Christians that say that Jesus is Lord! Read carefully on Jesus' words where he will insult the Christians and drive them away for the reason that they call him Lord!

 

"Not everyone who says to me, ?Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ?Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, ?I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Matthew 7:21-23

 

Therefore, Prophesizing in the name of Jesus and calling him Lord is a sin according to Jesus and Christians that commit this sin are evildoers.

 

 

He wrote:

And just like Yahweh Jesus is the Sovereign Lord of all:

"To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it." Deuteronomy 10:14

"See, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth will go into the Jordan ahead of you. And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the LORD -the Lord of all the earth?set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap." Joshua 3:11, 13

"Then Jesus came to them and said, ?All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.'" Matthew 28:18

"You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all." Acts 10:36

"If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living." Romans 14:8-9

 

My response:

 

Shamoun quoted Jesus by saying:

 

"Then Jesus came to them and said, ?All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.'" Matthew 28:18

 

Exactly! The question is WHO gave him this authority? The answer is GOD if Jesus was God then he would already have had this authority. Every time Shamoun quotes Jesus, supports the Muslim view. Thank you Shamoun. The quotations from the books of Acts and Romans are irrelevant because these are not the words of Jesus.

For more information read:

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/jesus_sending_prophets.htm (dealing with the prophets of Jesus)

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/jesus_being_given_all_authority.htm (Jesus given all authority makes him God?)

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/is_jesus_yahweh.htm (Is Jesus Yahweh?)

 

The rest of Shamoun's article is irrelevant because he repeatedly quotes the words of Paul and not the words of Jesus. The important points are addressed. Jesus it the Prophet and the messenger of God. He is not God !

 

And Allah the true God knows best!

 

www.muslim-responses.com